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	<title>Comments on: Chinese burns and deadlegs: There&#8217;s bullying in the blogosphere</title>
	<atom:link href="http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/</link>
	<description>Digital, social media, and everything in between from someone who likes to live in bubbles, be they dotcom, social media, or whatever&#039;s next...</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Dowling</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Dowling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve got no issue with cliques emerging, and people talking about whatever they want. I go to the pub once a month with my mates Dom, Christiaan and Rich and have the same circular discussions about the England cricket team, Premiership football and rugby. We&#039;ve been doing this for about 10 years, so any outsider will have some catching up to do. Web 2.0 is supposed to make those conversations easier. 

The PR industry will get more voices and more interesting content, when more people can be arsed to get involved. There are enough bright people with bright ideas. If they don&#039;t want to join a conversation about meta tags for now, then that&#039;s fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got no issue with cliques emerging, and people talking about whatever they want. I go to the pub once a month with my mates Dom, Christiaan and Rich and have the same circular discussions about the England cricket team, Premiership football and rugby. We&#8217;ve been doing this for about 10 years, so any outsider will have some catching up to do. Web 2.0 is supposed to make those conversations easier. </p>
<p>The PR industry will get more voices and more interesting content, when more people can be arsed to get involved. There are enough bright people with bright ideas. If they don&#8217;t want to join a conversation about meta tags for now, then that&#8217;s fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Sledzik]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Damn.  Stopped by to suck up to Brendan and tell him how much I love his list, as it&#039;s the only one I&#039;m on.  Then I find this thread.  Jenn, you do know how to stir &#039;em up.

Let&#039;s be honest.  We all know about and have witnessed the &quot;blog party&quot; behavior Jenn posted about, and it does get unseemly at times.  The fact that she won&#039;t cite examples -- Well, I view that as evidence of her civility. I was part of the blog party back when my site was a pup.  I was trying to cultivate contacts and, you know, fit in. I still do what may look like &quot;link love&quot; from time to time, but only when I think my readers (most of them NOT bloggers) will find the content interesting and useful.  

I once lusted for links.  Today I don&#039;t give a rat&#039;s behind.  But then again, I&#039;m not selling anything.  I&#039;m just writing stuff. 

Love the list, Brendan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn.  Stopped by to suck up to Brendan and tell him how much I love his list, as it&#8217;s the only one I&#8217;m on.  Then I find this thread.  Jenn, you do know how to stir &#8216;em up.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be honest.  We all know about and have witnessed the &#8220;blog party&#8221; behavior Jenn posted about, and it does get unseemly at times.  The fact that she won&#8217;t cite examples &#8212; Well, I view that as evidence of her civility. I was part of the blog party back when my site was a pup.  I was trying to cultivate contacts and, you know, fit in. I still do what may look like &#8220;link love&#8221; from time to time, but only when I think my readers (most of them NOT bloggers) will find the content interesting and useful.  </p>
<p>I once lusted for links.  Today I don&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s behind.  But then again, I&#8217;m not selling anything.  I&#8217;m just writing stuff. </p>
<p>Love the list, Brendan.</p>
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		<title>By: net.mentor &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A bit of a PR Punchup!</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[net.mentor &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A bit of a PR Punchup!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] old PR punchup with her latest blog about PR blogs.  Brendan Cooper followed up with left hook on blog bullying  and now there&#8217;s an unholy row going [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] old PR punchup with her latest blog about PR blogs.  Brendan Cooper followed up with left hook on blog bullying  and now there&#8217;s an unholy row going [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer Mattern]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brendan,  what about you specifically makes you feel like you&#039;re a clique-starter based on my views? Is it because you started a rating system? If so, then no, I don&#039;t think that classifies you. (And for the record, I never did think of you as the originator of any clique.) 

I &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; think something like the rankings could potentially make you a target for courting - even though I don&#039;t care for blog rankings in general because of the lack of meaningful metrics, I do know that others feel differently and &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; care about their rankings here, there, and everywhere so they&#039;ll have something to feed their egos and &quot;show off.&quot;  I would sincerely hope though that you would be able to tell the difference between someone wanting to build a real friendship with you as a blogger and &quot;communities&quot; of the favor-trading variety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan,  what about you specifically makes you feel like you&#8217;re a clique-starter based on my views? Is it because you started a rating system? If so, then no, I don&#8217;t think that classifies you. (And for the record, I never did think of you as the originator of any clique.) </p>
<p>I <i>do</i> think something like the rankings could potentially make you a target for courting &#8211; even though I don&#8217;t care for blog rankings in general because of the lack of meaningful metrics, I do know that others feel differently and <i>do</i> care about their rankings here, there, and everywhere so they&#8217;ll have something to feed their egos and &#8220;show off.&#8221;  I would sincerely hope though that you would be able to tell the difference between someone wanting to build a real friendship with you as a blogger and &#8220;communities&#8221; of the favor-trading variety.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I only asked for examples because I don&#039;t really see what Jenn sees, that&#039;s all. Plus, as I say, her description of what constitutes clique-creating activity seemed to apply to me so, well, I just wanted to know &#039;who I was being like&#039;. If I&#039;m not doing that, then great. I don&#039;t think I am.

I agree that there are lots of great bloggers out there. I&#039;d rather talk about them than bad bloggers, and about great communities rather than small cliques.

So, fair enough: to throw out the word &#039;bullying&#039; may have been a loaded word. But by the same token, be careful about proscribing activities. Let people experiment/ play/ copy/ adopt/ adapt/ improve, even if you think you&#039;ve seen it all before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only asked for examples because I don&#8217;t really see what Jenn sees, that&#8217;s all. Plus, as I say, her description of what constitutes clique-creating activity seemed to apply to me so, well, I just wanted to know &#8216;who I was being like&#8217;. If I&#8217;m not doing that, then great. I don&#8217;t think I am.</p>
<p>I agree that there are lots of great bloggers out there. I&#8217;d rather talk about them than bad bloggers, and about great communities rather than small cliques.</p>
<p>So, fair enough: to throw out the word &#8216;bullying&#8217; may have been a loaded word. But by the same token, be careful about proscribing activities. Let people experiment/ play/ copy/ adopt/ adapt/ improve, even if you think you&#8217;ve seen it all before.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Gombita</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judy Gombita]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Implying that Jenn Mattern is an online bully in a post, then waiting to see who shows up to support that claim/echo your thoughts might be an example.... ;-)

Not sure why you (or anyone else) would expect her to provide a specific example; *that* could/would be online censure/bullying and (of course) merely her subjective opinion as to the worst offenders. Jenn made some general observations about the prevalence of narrowcast group-think, fawnish linklove and link-baiting, calculated gaming, etc.

If you read her post carefully, you&#039;ll see that Jenn encourages independent, original and critical thought/assessment. Plus she encourages one to test theories and gut instincts against different types of people, instead of remaining in your own comfort zone (or PR blog party or clique or &quot;community&quot;).

If you are so inclined, test your own practices against her observations. Only you know what your genuine motivations are to &quot;build a community&quot; and what shape/form it has or might take. In the online (so-called PR blogs) world I find &quot;community&quot; to be pretty amorphous, anyhow. A blogger who I valued having a relationship with a year or two ago might have disappointed me in the ensuring time as one of the PR Blog Party peeps, so I&#039;ve moved on. 

The good news is that there are *so many* new and (more) interesting bloggers to meet, from around the world. So, your world has the potential to enlarge, rather than shrink in the mediocre pool of the best date past-due crowd. Good luck on your journeys.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Implying that Jenn Mattern is an online bully in a post, then waiting to see who shows up to support that claim/echo your thoughts might be an example&#8230;. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Not sure why you (or anyone else) would expect her to provide a specific example; *that* could/would be online censure/bullying and (of course) merely her subjective opinion as to the worst offenders. Jenn made some general observations about the prevalence of narrowcast group-think, fawnish linklove and link-baiting, calculated gaming, etc.</p>
<p>If you read her post carefully, you&#8217;ll see that Jenn encourages independent, original and critical thought/assessment. Plus she encourages one to test theories and gut instincts against different types of people, instead of remaining in your own comfort zone (or PR blog party or clique or &#8220;community&#8221;).</p>
<p>If you are so inclined, test your own practices against her observations. Only you know what your genuine motivations are to &#8220;build a community&#8221; and what shape/form it has or might take. In the online (so-called PR blogs) world I find &#8220;community&#8221; to be pretty amorphous, anyhow. A blogger who I valued having a relationship with a year or two ago might have disappointed me in the ensuring time as one of the PR Blog Party peeps, so I&#8217;ve moved on. </p>
<p>The good news is that there are *so many* new and (more) interesting bloggers to meet, from around the world. So, your world has the potential to enlarge, rather than shrink in the mediocre pool of the best date past-due crowd. Good luck on your journeys.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure, but it&#039;s actual examples of this that I&#039;m missing. With the definitions circulating, it would appear that I&#039;m guilty of creating a clique. I need to see an example of this actually in process so I know what to avoid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but it&#8217;s actual examples of this that I&#8217;m missing. With the definitions circulating, it would appear that I&#8217;m guilty of creating a clique. I need to see an example of this actually in process so I know what to avoid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer Mattern]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brendan, a clique is all about promoting each other, agreeing with each other (at least to a large degree), linking to each other just for the hell of it, etc. A community (in a blog sense) is about legitimately &quot;deserved&quot; linking, real discussion, etc. A community is far more dynamic, with new people entering through that linking, discussion, or other means (and exiting) regularly, whereas in a clique environment, it&#039;s more exclusive and actions are more calculated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan, a clique is all about promoting each other, agreeing with each other (at least to a large degree), linking to each other just for the hell of it, etc. A community (in a blog sense) is about legitimately &#8220;deserved&#8221; linking, real discussion, etc. A community is far more dynamic, with new people entering through that linking, discussion, or other means (and exiting) regularly, whereas in a clique environment, it&#8217;s more exclusive and actions are more calculated.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Baradell</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5528</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Baradell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh shit, did I accidentally involve myself in a PR blog community discussion?  That was not my intention. 

I see lots of new bloggers writing lots of good stuff; in fact, most of the best stuff I read is from newer blogs.  Not necessarily PR blogs -- most of those suck, new or old.  These days, I prefer blogs by individuals about their real passions, wherever they may lead, unconstrained by category limitations.  Not blogs with topics and keywords that are neatly designed to attract new clients.

Of course, by virtue of the Web 2.0 hysteria of the past year or two, newer bloggers are more likely to have gotten into it for financial reasons (or as they say on The Bachelor, which my wife still makes me watch, the &quot;wrong reasons&quot;), whereas we KNOW that folks who&#039;ve been blogging as long as Kevin Dugan and Jeremy Pepper started for other reasons ... just cause they&#039;re weird or whatever.     

Anyhow, most of my criticism is reserved for people who are satisfied with Groundhogs Day content -- be they new or old.  I&#039;m amazed they can get up and keep writing the same shit every day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh shit, did I accidentally involve myself in a PR blog community discussion?  That was not my intention. </p>
<p>I see lots of new bloggers writing lots of good stuff; in fact, most of the best stuff I read is from newer blogs.  Not necessarily PR blogs &#8212; most of those suck, new or old.  These days, I prefer blogs by individuals about their real passions, wherever they may lead, unconstrained by category limitations.  Not blogs with topics and keywords that are neatly designed to attract new clients.</p>
<p>Of course, by virtue of the Web 2.0 hysteria of the past year or two, newer bloggers are more likely to have gotten into it for financial reasons (or as they say on The Bachelor, which my wife still makes me watch, the &#8220;wrong reasons&#8221;), whereas we KNOW that folks who&#8217;ve been blogging as long as Kevin Dugan and Jeremy Pepper started for other reasons &#8230; just cause they&#8217;re weird or whatever.     </p>
<p>Anyhow, most of my criticism is reserved for people who are satisfied with Groundhogs Day content &#8212; be they new or old.  I&#8217;m amazed they can get up and keep writing the same shit every day.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5527</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brendancooper.com/2008/01/21/chinese-burns-and-deadlegs-theres-bullying-in-the-blogosphere/#comment-5527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, but how to differentiate from interviews/rankings done in a genuine &quot;let&#039;s find out about what&#039;s going on&quot; way, and a &quot;desperate clique-oriented sort of way&quot;?

In other words, what&#039;s the difference between a clique, and a community? I&#039;d like to see examples so I&#039;ll know what to avoid doing - or participating in - for the future!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, but how to differentiate from interviews/rankings done in a genuine &#8220;let&#8217;s find out about what&#8217;s going on&#8221; way, and a &#8220;desperate clique-oriented sort of way&#8221;?</p>
<p>In other words, what&#8217;s the difference between a clique, and a community? I&#8217;d like to see examples so I&#8217;ll know what to avoid doing &#8211; or participating in &#8211; for the future!</p>
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